Stories Behind the Frames - Sean Goss

Stories Behind the Frames - Sean Goss
The Frame Center Podcast
Stories Behind the Frames - Sean Goss

Aug 26 2023 | 00:57:50

Episode 1 August 26, 2023 00:57:50

Hosted By

Scott Brundage Dave Petty Elizabeth Perkins Don Claude

Show Notes

Welcome to the first episode in a new series where Dave sits and speaks with Artists and Collectors on the South Shore delving deep into the stories behind their Artwork.  In this first episode we sit with Sean Goss, Photographer and Owner of Goss Photo in Hanover Massachusetts.  We'll discuss a few of Sean's pieces and learn what he likes to capture through his lens, as well as what it takes to edit, print, and frame them.   Sean's knowledge of camera's and what they can acomplish is clearly defined in this interview, you won't want to miss listening this episode of "Stories Behind the Frames"

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to Stories Behind The Frames a video series that will expose you to new artists and take you on an artistic journey. Speaker 1 00:00:15 I, Speaker 0 00:00:16 I'm your host, Dave Petty, and I'm thrilled to have you join us Speaker 1 00:00:29 Through Speaker 0 00:00:29 My years at the Frame Center and my time spent in the South Shore art scene, I've had the opportunity to make many relationships with so many talented artists inspired by these connections and a wealth of untold stories, have decided to share these conversations with you. The hope of stories behind the Frames is to show you new artists, the interesting artwork they create and what a thriving art community we have here on the South Shore. So I've been working with Sean since he opened up Gospel Photo Lab. Uh, we do a lot of framing for him. He helps us when we have questions on printing. We have a great working relationship. When we decided we wanted to tell these stories and dive deep into the art and the personalities of some of the South Shores artists, Sean was definitely one of the people we wanted to spotlight. Speaker 2 00:02:03 All right, so now we're actually sitting down. We've got a couple interruptions along the way. Uh, hey, uh, we're in the customer service business, so, you know, you always have to do, do the right thing for the customers. Uh, you know, so we're, we're both used to, you know, a little delayed. But we, we've gotten here, we've got, uh, a couple pieces. We've got two pieces of yours, one of my favorites, uh, another one of my favorites from the series you had at the Frame Center. And then one of your own, uh, one of the pieces that, uh, that one is that you own. It's done by somebody else. Yes. Um, I'm saying, I'm thinking we go, one yours, one you like and wrap it up with one of yours. Alright. So let's, let's start with the, the front of the car. This is one of my, one of the favorites of my, of yours. Speaker 2 00:02:58 Of mine. The beginning. Um, I like a lot of your work, but tell me a little bit about this one. Um, I had people, look, this was, had been at the Frame Center for a long time. Yeah. Um, and I like it a lot, but I, people look at it and I just like it. 'cause I, you know, I saw it and I liked it. Yeah. And I'm like, we have this giant frame, let's put some, let's put that on. I have people look at it all the time and they, you know, they think that there's, you know, trying to figure out what's going on there. So I don't, uh, let's hear it from the, you know, the source. Uh, well, <inaudible>, um, yeah. I'm not even a car guy. I know you're a little bit of a car guy. So, uh, it's a picture that I took, I don't know, maybe eight years ago. Speaker 2 00:03:45 Yep. Uh, at, we were at the, uh, car show that they have at Bass Pro shows on Thursday nights. Yep. And, um, it actually worked out where, since it was a white car, it was like, like the contrast of the day was so strong. Yeah. That when I took it, everything else was dark to begin with. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So there's a little bit of Photoshop work when I turned it black and white, but not a whole lot. Just to darken the rest of the stuff that didn't catch the sunlight. And, um, it just look really cool. Yeah. No, it does. It, it, it's not as simple as you can get for the front of the car, but that's also what makes it really interesting. Yeah. Oh. 'cause it's very focused. So what it was a white car. Yep. Yeah. And then, and I'm not a Photoshop, uh, you know, I don't, you know, the whole thing with digital photographs nowadays, you know, I mean, is there the stuff you can do? Speaker 2 00:04:45 Yeah. Um, basically all I did, like on the computer and things is I burned down, like where the road was a little bit. Yeah. It's like the asphalt picked up some spots. Yeah. And then, uh, the sky was like super blue and I just took like a cross sliders and dumped 'em to black. Yeah. That's pretty much what it ended up with. Yeah. Um, you know, the car was by itself and it gives you, you know, how it feel. It has that feel like, is it Feinstein, Feinstein, Feinstein, Feinstein, the black, like with that heavy black Yeah. Like the superstar. Yeah. Um, yeah. Makes it stand out like crazy. Yeah. Um, and there's a lot of like, detail within the car. Like if you start like looking at the phone, you can see the fans and stuff like that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just a wicked cool setup and like the simplicity is what I like about it. Speaker 2 00:05:41 Yeah. And like, did you see when you saw that, like, was that like in your mind, like in, in your mind because you're like at a car show? You know? Um, mostly like, I generally don't take a lot of pictures at car shows. Yep. Um, and I just happen to, to have my camera with me. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, it was sitting there by itself. I didn't take it intending for it to turn into like a black and white shot like that. Yeah. Uh, but when I started like looking at it on the computer and started playing with like, how the contrast with all the shadows and were in the shot worked mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it just made sense to like, dump it to black and white. Yeah. Pull everything else that wasn't the car down black. Yeah. So what do you like the day you took that picture? Speaker 2 00:06:23 I mean, what do you, like, what's the process? You, you say you don't usually have the camera with you on at a show like that, but if you do, you're out and you shoot a whole bunch of stuff and like, do you, you have like a feeling when you take that picture, like you're like, this is gonna be a good shot? Or is it more along the lines of like, you, you start, you take a million pictures because you're just hitting a button and then you're reviewing and then you're like seeing what direction you can go. So add something like a car show. Well, I generally don't have my camera 'cause everything's very crowded. Yeah. And um, when I was walking by the car, there was no one around it and it was just like, oh, this could be cool. Yeah. Uh, with no intention of it being anything other than, oh, this could be cool. Speaker 2 00:07:07 Yeah. And then later, like looking at on the computer, like, yeah, it's gonna actually work out. Yeah. And then that's what it turned into. Yeah. And you have a lot of like, you know, do you, you have a lot of car shots? Or like, is uh, cars like racing uh, racing and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I photograph a lot of cars in motion. Yeah. I'm not the best at shooting cars that our cities still. Yeah. It is. It is not really like my mistake that I go for. Yeah. Um, occasionally it works out. Yeah. And there's, is there people that you like, like, that you appreciate that shoot cars, that being still Oh, definitely. Um, I mean, that's over my head. You're a photo expert, so Yeah. One of my friends, Nolan, I actually had him photograph my cars. Yeah. 'cause I don't take pictures of my own cars. Speaker 2 00:07:55 Yeah. Um, is it Eastman? Yeah. Yeah, Eastman. Yeah. He's really good. It is like a good eye for how a car looks like in a static environment. Yeah. Stuff like that. So what is it about a car shot that like, if it's still that, like that makes it a better shot? I think it has to do with like, background and stuff like that. Like, you have to have like an environment where it would look cool. Yeah. Um, and it's almost like a, I wanna say like, almost like an advertising shot. Yeah. So it has that type of, you feel. Yeah. But it has like a little bit of like an edgier editing, like edgier tone to it. Yeah. Um, which like I can't, I don't see cars sitting still that way. Yeah. Like, it, like my brain just doesn't process them. Yeah. Because you wanna be moving fast. Speaker 2 00:08:43 Right. Like, I, I like cars racing, I like watching them bike. Yeah. So you like step on the gas <laugh>. Yeah. Not so your, your, your things about cars. It's more like the, like the speed and the like what's going on when you're in the car, you know? Yeah. Opposed to like, somebody that might be into like just, you know, alright. I know this nice car, aesthetically appreciated. Yeah. You know, I like 'em for what they're made to do. Yeah. Which is drive. So, yeah. Gotcha. And you do the videos too, you, you like on the bikes too, right? Because you're cars in bikes. Yep. Um, I mean, I have some video stuff of like me riding a motorcycles. Yeah. Was that the GoPro or? Yeah, but that's more just in case something happens. Like, you know, if like someone cut me off and I like wreck my bike and then there's no proof of it, you know? Speaker 2 00:09:35 Yeah. That, that's more what I would've to go through for Really. I was never gonna like vlog in or anything like that. Yeah. Interesting. Any, you know, same thing, you couldn't take pictures of bikes, like still I'm even probably could Yeah. Just not interested. Yeah. It's just, it is not like, it doesn't interest me. Yeah. Um, I think like the last bike I bought, I took a picture of it and like sent it to Betten <inaudible> who sold it to me. Yeah. Uh, but that was about it. I think that might be the only picture of it. Like a cell phone picture or, yeah. Now do you have people asking you to take those type of pictures that you're not interested in because you're in that world of like cars and bikes? Sometimes, but generally I just tell him to talk to normally <laugh>. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:10:18 Yeah. Um, you know, it's, it is cool. Like he, he gets to like, ride around in a lot of cool cars and a lot of cool people. Yeah. 'cause but like, the actual act of like trying to position a car and all that just doesn't appeal to me. Yeah. So what do you, what do you of, of all the stuff that you shoot, like what, what is it that you like that you know, I mean, obviously weddings and, uh, you know, this certain portraits work that, you know, that pays, right? Yeah. But is there, is there like a favorite of, of yours or, uh, well, like, you kind of skip all over. I kind of jump around, but overall, like, if it is stuff that I enjoy taking photos of now Yeah. Is like the portrait series that I have the are, which is like this one here. Speaker 2 00:11:02 Um, and it's a much slower, more creative pace. Yeah. Since I'm using like a four by five camera. Yeah. Um, and I also photograph a lot of shows like concerts with like local bands and stuff like that, which are fun. Yeah. Because they're, I've the music, it's like high energy and stuff like that, which makes it interesting. Yeah. Um, they're usually late at night so I don't have to worry about like childcare. Yeah. <laugh>. So Yeah. So like off on location stuff. 'cause you've done a lot of stuff with, uh, for the, for the Globe too. Like I've done some stuff with 'em and, uh, the fireworks. I know. Yeah. Yeah. The uh, uh, for the Boston Pops and stuff like that, uh, which is a lot of fun. Like on location stuff is just cool where it's more of like a document Yeah. Documenting an event, but trying to put like an interesting spin on it. Speaker 2 00:11:57 Yeah. Uh, that's not just Oh, this happened. Yeah. It like, take it into like a more artsy form than that. Yeah. And that's interesting too because, you know, when, when Bill was, we were here the other day and we were talking with Bill and was talking about how you like still really capture people Yeah. That aren't like, that aren't as much like interest, you know, used to be photographed or Right. Like, that's just kind of an interesting Well, and that's, that's how I work with like, uh, the people I do for like these projects. Like Yeah. VV has been photographed a lot, so she like knows how to be in front of a camera. It doesn't like intimidate her, but a lot of the people that I photograph have never really done it before. Yeah. Um, and it is, it is fun because if you get somebody who's into having a picture taken, especially now, you know, there's story people on Instagram. Speaker 2 00:12:50 Yeah. They're like selfies trying to be a model or, you know, or a model. They're like doing their selfies or something like that. They'll have like a look they want. Yeah. Um, where if you have someone who's like never really been in front of a camera, you can direct 'em to get the look that I would want. Yeah. Uh, versus what they think they want. Yeah. Like, you know, like you tell 'em to be like serious or, you know, like something like that they might have, they might not feel comfortable looking that way. Yeah. So they'd be like, oh, that's gonna make me ugly. Yeah. Well, not really Yeah. What you're looking for. Yeah. Uh, so is board portrait work something that you That's what I, yeah, that's what I do now. And, um, one, I can schedule it with how crazy everything is, so it makes it easy. Speaker 2 00:13:35 Um, but engaging with the people is more fun and interesting. Yeah. Um, you know, if I was traveling all over, I'd probably shoot a lot more like landscape and travel type stuff. Yeah. Um, but I've shot so much around the area here that you're on of, on the subject matter that you find interesting on the subject matter or like, there's like certain things like, I won't take a picture that's gonna be better than this one I already took. Yeah. You know, and maybe I wouldn't, but the, the effort it would take to do so doesn't feel like genuine at that point. Yeah. You know, like, uh, it's not as inspiring as it was. Yeah. Um, just 'cause it is something I did for so long. Yeah. And I like to like change it up and keep interested in the medium. Yeah. So how did you get your whole start in as being a photographer? Speaker 2 00:14:27 I mean, I know that the, the, I know from the business standpoint it goes back to like it was Ritz, right? Yeah. Yeah. I worked for Ritz for a while. I mean, it goes back even for that. Um, like my grandmother used to work for Nobles. Okay. And, uh, Brian Noble gave me my first job when I was like 13. No, no kidding. Uh, selling cameras. And then I bought a camera from there, there, uh, when I was working there and it just like, sort of like progressively like, took off from that point. Yeah. Um, and then I shot film until probably early two thousands. Yeah. Um, then got like my first visual camera, um, and still continued to shoot from like, through all that anyway. Yeah. But, um, making the switch to digital, like from doing weddings like back then made life a lot easier. Speaker 2 00:15:19 Yeah. Um, and I also was, you know, like working retail, going to school had no money. So shooting, even though it was way cheaper than it is now, it was still like a costly endeavor. Yeah. Uh, and digital gave me the freedom to like really run in a lot of the stuff, like before going to school for it. Yeah. Where, where did you go to school for, uh, Bridgewater State? Um, back and high school. Okay. Um, a lot of connections to Bridgewater State. They're everywhere. <laugh>, it wasn't university when I would've, no. It was all way to college <laugh>. Um, but what, what, when did you, at what point did you start getting paid for taking pictures? Uh, probably early two thousands in, in any type of particular job. So those were, um, a lot of it when I first like got into it professionally was a lot of, uh, like architectural for, uh, like different firms who would be doing like a building contest. Speaker 2 00:16:16 Like they would enter these contests where they'd be like graded on like, the amount work they did, like how good it was. So you'd like, I'd go in and like photograph like these huge like office complexes. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, they do their spread and if they win, they get some award and some, you know, uh, like what the equivalent of a blue check mark would be today. Yeah. You know, like, oh, these guys are awesome 'cause of this. So I did a lot of that sort of stuff, um, for like Stevie s and, uh, a few other buildings. And, uh, I'd go around to like each place that they had. Yeah. And, uh, it was a lot of like corporate architecture work and it, it was tricky, but it was nice. 'cause you kind of did it like on your own, like on your own time, on your own like schedule. Speaker 2 00:16:59 As long as you got it done by the day they needed it, it wasn't a big deal. Yep. And did now, you know, like did that sort of thing pay well or is that something that was like a side gig to working out of Nobles or Ritz and, you know, uh, I did it alongside, I worked out of Ritz, uh, mainly 'cause I paid for my own school. So like any money I can get was good money. Yeah. Um, but, uh, it used to pay well and now stuff like that doesn't, because there's too many people, so too many people trying to do it. Yeah. And, um, a lot of like the corporate stuff has, they either hire someone on staff to do it. Yeah. Or you know, like any, any place that has, you know, 300 offices Yeah. Somebody's a photographer there. Yeah. So like, they usually try and like go with it or work with it or something like that. Speaker 2 00:17:47 And, uh, the market for that has just changed dramatically from Yeah. When it, when photography was not as available. <inaudible>. Yeah. It, it, so the transition from film to digital kinda flooded the market with, uh, it flooded the market, but it's even more like, um, YouTube and online and like being able to educate yourself Yeah. Without having to jump through a bunch of hoop to do so. Yeah. Or read a lot of books. Like, um, when I first started it was all about reading to like learn how to go over like exposure and aperture and stuff like that. And now you can hop on and have 300 different people with YouTube channels tell you how to do it. Yeah. So that's changed the market a lot and it's put a lot of, it's put a lot of knowledge into regular people's hands, which well, that elevates everything though. Speaker 2 00:18:40 Right. It elevates everything, but it also sort of like saturates the market. Yeah. Um, which I mean is a good and a bad thing because, you know, there's plenty of information, so anybody who wants to get into it Yeah. Can get into it, but to separate yourself from everybody else makes it more different. Yeah. Because, you know, you have a bunch of people like, uh, like Peter McCann and he has millions of subscribers and all this sort of stuff and a bunch of people who idolize him and then all their work looks like his work. Yeah. So it makes it difficult for people to like find their own way. Yeah. So that must be for you because like the more people they get into photography the better for, uh, for golf photo, right? Oh, absolutely. <laugh>. But, uh, you know, and I like helping those people. Speaker 2 00:19:27 Like one of the nice parts is here, we'll work with anybody who, from someone who like just bought their first camera last week Yeah. To people who are submitting the shows Yeah. Or shooting professionally or, yeah. So we have like a range of customers. We're not, we're not like, you know, we're not like just the pro pro and we're, we don't wanna be intimidating to somebody who's not a pro Yeah. To be able to come and like, share knowledge and get prints and like, get good quality work without having to either, you know, like fake it till you make it or, uh, feel like they're looked down upon versus like somebody who's been doing it for 20 years, you know? Yeah. I mean, it seems like there's a lot of, uh, you know, educating, I mean, even earlier you were, you know, kind of explaining the guy how to, you know, how you're gonna end up having to crop cro the photograph, you know? Speaker 2 00:20:22 Yeah. So there's a lot of, uh, it must be a lot of like keeping up on things too, like the iPhones, you know, changing of equipment. Yeah. And I mean, the principles on everything stays the same, which is the nice part. Yeah. So like the, the the standard principles of photography haven't changed since the late 18 hundreds. Yeah. Yeah. They're still like, what are those principles know to somebody that doesn't know, you know? So you have io you have shutter speed and you have a aperture. Yeah. Just how sensitive the film or the sensor is, is your I s o. Yeah. Uh, the shutter speed is how fast the camera's gonna click to take the picture. And the aperture is how big the opening of the lenses mm-hmm. <affirmative> and those three things make up the picture in 1890 and in 2023. Yep. Um, how the picture's processed now is amazing. Speaker 2 00:21:14 Like the camera can do so much work that the image quality's leaving phenomenally even out like a 700 camera, 500 camera, the image quality is better than we could ever imagine. Yeah. Um, and you know, like the image processing or like the AI that they're putting into stuff now Yeah. Uh, leaves a lot of room for error. Yeah. Um, but, and the principle of it has all stayed the same. The hardest part is keeping up with, oh, like this computer system or this file type or all that sort of stuff. It's a little Yeah. Hectic. Does that now when you see all that stuff coming in and like the AI stuff and the, you know, like how anyone can take a picture. Like, does that drive you to want to go back to like an old school, to like a film? Or is, you know, I mean, it does and it doesn't. Speaker 2 00:22:06 Um, we actually have a pretty large film business. Yeah. Um, and I think like the simplicity of it is appealing to a lot of people mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, where it's not all like in the palm of your hand Yeah. And in instant, um, you know, and the same reason people are still buying records. Yeah. Um, it has like a certain feel or aesthetic to it or, uh, but the, I like it 'cause it's a slower pace with the work that I do. Yeah. But I'm also using a four by five camera that you, you have to focus and then of the film. Yeah. And like, and when you look at the, like when you look at a finished image, can you tell you, um, look at the difference or you I'd say like 90% of the time, yeah. Um, on smaller images it's a little tougher, but like you can see like the grain structure that film produces. Speaker 2 00:22:59 Yeah. Uh, and like the pixelation or the noise that like a digital camera produces is definitely different. Yeah. Um, but there's a lot of people who will recreate film looks Yeah. In Photoshop a light. Um, and you can go out and you can buy a precept that'll make your film your digital photo look like Kodak 400 gold. Yeah. They like rec they try and like reproduce what the film looks. Yeah. Trying to build retro. Right. You know, retro on modern age, modern retro, you know, refitting, the 67 Mustang with modern stuff. Yeah. Like same idea, um, to get a look That used to be, which is kind of funny. Yeah. So with all this filter script, obviously you've, you know, judged a number of shows and you had your shows, um, mean do you feel like it, like from a judging standpoint of for, for a photo show then, like, what you looking for now? Speaker 2 00:23:57 Does this like it, is it when you see a, when you see something, does it have to be like, edited to a certain degree that to make it even like, I don't photograph or like, or is that, or you see things and all of a sudden it looks overdone and you're like, well, you know, is this anything that's a talent from the photographer or is this all a computer that's making this shot? Well, there's definitely talent on both ends. Yeah. So like, you know, to, to capture an image as best as you can is like one step. Yeah. Um, editing is like a whole nother skill Yeah. On top of it. So, uh, when I, when I would like judge shows and stuff, people would talk about like, oh, it's digitally altered your stuff. I never really looked at that. Yeah. Unless it was like a composited image of like a ton of images. Speaker 2 00:24:46 Yeah. It'd be the only time I'd be like, all right, well this has to go in like the digitally altered category. Yeah. If you're dealing with like maybe a filter playing with like brightness contrast and like your color values, I'd never really considered that. Like digitally altered. Yeah. Um, and like any art form, the, the steps top, if it is a good finished product or a good finished image, I don't really care how you got there. Yeah. Um, as long as like the final result is something that's worth looking at. Yeah. Um, 'cause if you're really good on the computer and you can manipulate images to get a certain look Yeah. Or not. Yeah. Um, you know, they used to do it in the dark room and they do it now on the computer. Yeah. It's the same Yeah. Same concept. Um, we just have more tools available than Yeah. Speaker 2 00:25:34 You did back up. Interesting. And they're all <laugh>. Yeah. And then, you know, so obviously you judge a number of shows, you're, you know, probably one of the self shows, you know, experts on photography anyway. Right. I'd like to think so. Yeah. I've been doing, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, how long have you been doing, now you're only 39 right? 20 years. <laugh> <crosstalk> for 20 years. So, and then, uh, like moving from, from the, like the car to like this series, the series of portraits mm-hmm. <affirmative>. When you, when you start shooting those, I mean obviously you don't have like just people lined up in here, you know, one after the next. Like are you, how, how are you planning something like that out? Like how the series is gonna look as a whole? Or are you just like, all I'm just gonna take some cool pictures of people and then I'm gonna pick my favorites? Speaker 2 00:26:33 Yeah. Just kind of wing it. Like there's so like this like series of pictures. I think I took five pictures, like that whole thing. Yeah. And it took a couple hours. Yeah. Um, because working with like the larger format film and stuff, there's, I mean, there's room for error. Like the nice part is I have the ability to develop it. Yeah. You know, I have like wholesale casual with Kodak, so like Yeah. But it's still really expensive to Yeah. Like each, each pitcher ends up being, you know, talk about retail like $25 every time. Click the button. So like, if you don't get it right, you're just burning money away. Yeah. Um, so like this, I usually, it depends on the person. Yeah. So like, I have this, I have a couple where people's faces we're painted black and white. Um, and I think if like someone, if like someone's look like fits that style, I'd do that. Speaker 2 00:27:26 But I, it's all black and white and it's all tight head shots. Yeah. Um, so where's that idea come from that you're gonna just make half a face black and, uh, I was at the, that was it. I party and soft face paint. No, let's try this <laugh>. That's really like, that's, that's about what it came down to. Yeah. It was like I was trying to come up with something that was interesting and different. Yeah. And it actually started with the face paint ones and I got into people whose faces weren't paying. Yeah. Um, the, yeah. You know, we did like a little teardrop on her, but that was because she had already smothered her makeup, so we made it more dramatic. Yeah. Nice. I think like the burlap that she has on was just something that was sticking around in the back of the studio. Speaker 2 00:28:08 Did you just, you know, hair wrap your head? Yes. Yeah. Like I had a couple without it and um, and it was just one like, oh, this would look cool and it picked up like, some cool shadows and stuff Yeah. That like, really make it sort of like jump out out of like all the pictures that we took. Yeah. So I'm trying to remember how many there was from the series when there, when there was at, at the French Center? It was, uh, I think there were five five all together. Uh, six because there was one on the entrance. Okay. Yeah. And uh, like the, the sixth one, which is like, of the series, but not 'cause it's a little further back Yeah. Is, uh, one from this night without the her lap and she like has her arms up and stuff. So it's a, a different look from the rest of 'em, but still kind of has that sort of weird vibe to it. Speaker 2 00:28:59 Yeah. And then how do you keep track of all that stuff? Like just hard drives and hard drives Hard. Yeah. Well, a lot of 'em. Yeah. But I mean, I mean it's just, it must be like daunting, right? Like if you go back into those archives and look at in like, alright, well this is like, I have these four photographs of the portraits. I wish it was that organized, it took what, three years ago that would fit with these perfectly. Or is that, um, like I generally have like a, like all like all the weddings that shoot are incredibly organized 'cause they have to be. Yeah. Um, and then there's usually a folder on the hard drive of like Sean's artwork. Yeah. And then I'll just sort of gets dumped in there by date. Yeah. Um, so as long as I know roughly when I took it, I can like find it. Speaker 2 00:29:51 Yeah. Um, the film stuff is a little bit different where you have like a physical copy from the negative air. I have like a digital steering I did. So if I ever needed to, I could always go all the way back to a physical copy and re-scan it and do that sort of stuff. Yeah. That's, we were, we would stop by my sleepers and he has, they like, you know, pages and it's like, yeah. Mine are not that for the negatives because generally like once I stand 'em, they kind of just go in a box. Yeah. Um, because I shouldn't have to ever go back to the negative. Yeah. Uh, if I do that means like, bad stuff happened to my computers and hard drives and stuff like that. But what do you do with the actual negatives? I just keep 'em in like an archival box. Speaker 2 00:30:35 Yeah. Um, I have a couple like those like big Tupperwares, little like stack there and there's a big pile of them that still need to be organized mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's, and when some people like destroy the negatives after some people like, don't care. It is very odd about like, we have a lot of people who will like drop off film, get it scanned Yeah. And either have us throw the negatives away or like never come pick it up. Yeah. Which I mean, it's fine if you want like the digital one. Yeah. And I think a lot of it is, I'd say 80% of the people shooting film now are people are shooting it brand new. Yeah. You know, a lot of the people like professionally who shot it all switched to digital because it made the professional world way easier. Yeah. Um, and now it's more of like a hobby type thing. Speaker 2 00:31:24 Yeah. And some of 'em don't even know what a negative is. So like, you know, we had people ask like, oh, like, you know, like, you, why I get this? What is it? What the picture gave? Yeah. Um, and most of the time they don't care or know what to do with it anyway. Yeah. And then those all now like very small, like that they have one size when I was like, you know Yeah. 35 millimeter, so it's in each by inch and half, um, and there's like four on a strip or five on a strip. Yeah. Uh, it comes in like a big roll and we chuckling down. Yeah. And that's just seems like something that would be cool to, you know, I mean from a frame, you know, from a standpoint of like framing things and like looking at like Yeah. Like I want incorporate some negatives into some frames, but I don't know how to do like a permanent like, behind it. Speaker 2 00:32:09 Yeah. Which could be kind of cool. Like if I took like, let's say like one of these pictures and had the picture but then had like the negative underneath it Yeah. Somehow lit up so you could see the Yeah. Like a, maybe like an e d or something Yeah. To put batteries in it. Like that's the only downside. Yeah. Yeah. No, that would be like a, I would've a cool look Right. To, you know, to see the negative. Yeah. I think it'd be cool to like hook with it. Um, especially now where everything is so digital that like a lot of people will assume that it's digital off the rip or, you know, there's some people who, even some people who shoot film that don't know anything about large format film. Yeah. I mean, I guess that would be another cool way too of like, you know, like since it, since a piece could be produced so many times, like to have the negative included, you know, then it makes it a one you like a one off it makes a one off it, you know, like all of a sudden it, it has that, I don't know, it's, it's, I'm I'm giving you like my copy of it versus like the world's copy, which is kind of cool. Speaker 2 00:33:10 Um, so we wanna pay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's kind a cool. Yeah. Like that's, you know, just a different, you know, different thought, different thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And do you, are you still entering a lot of shows yourself? Like you just, like, if you were to enter a show, like what would you be going with? Would you be I it would be portraits right now. Yeah. Would be mostly like what I would enter. Um, I wanted to enter North River and South Shore, but then got caught up doing everybody else's century, so I didn't get to do any. But yeah. Well, I mean that's, there's something that's fun about that too, right? I, I go to the shows and I like to see my friends, you know, and you know how we're like actually, uh, you know, helping the work, you know, helping present the work or, you know. Speaker 2 00:33:56 Oh, for sure. And being a part of it, you know, that's like a fun thing. So I mean, I would imagine, yeah. I mean the nice part is even if I don't get my homework into a show, my work is always usually in the shows. Yeah. Same as like the frame, you know, it's like, oh, like, well, we produce this prayer or, you know, like something like that. It is your, your work is still in there, like supporting the community regardless of if I was able to get my 15 bucks down and get a picture in, into the project. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is a cool way to look at stuff and shows. There's also a lot of times where people ask me to judge something and then like, again, or anyway, so, uh, when I was, when I was journeying a lot of shows I didn't enter any shows. Speaker 2 00:34:34 Yeah. Because that would be a little unfair. Yeah. Um, they usually give you like that one, the Yeah. One off the side or something. Find the jar. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. And uh, the other thing too is that I wanted to ask you about, was about Bill, like in your relationship with Bill mm-hmm. <affirmative>, is that, how did that all come about? I don't even remember <laugh>. I've known Bill like, since Ritz, like for, or, uh, randomly Bill's a talker. So he might come in and like, you know, just start, you know, like chatting. And uh, when we opened our own place, he kept coming to buy more and more. And, uh, in 2016 I really started helping him like catalog and organize all this stuff and helping him with editing. Um, will help him. I like set it up on my computer. He uses it because I think he likes the quiet and also like, he gets people come in and visit him here. Speaker 2 00:35:39 Yeah. So like, yeah, he pictures of the door. Right, right. Yeah. You know, like keeps him, it, it keeps him busy, but also like, you know, if he wanted to like edit in my office and shut the door, like no one would bother him. Yeah. Uh, 'cause he does get, he gets to talking by accident sometimes, so. Oh, yeah. I I've been involved with that couple of conversations. Yeah. Yeah. But like, as, as like anybody who still is social, like will do is just like he end up talking to you, you get started. Oh. Where Met last hour ago. Yeah. Um, but, uh, and with all like the new stuff that's out there, especially since Bill retired from the Globe and all that, we're running his, his own website and all that sort of stuff. He doesn't have an office in there. Yeah. So he doesn't have like a little like, retreat to go and work on the stuff. Speaker 2 00:36:32 Yeah. Um, and I think also too, for him having tech support Right, right. Close by pretty quick. Yeah. Like, he's not the best for the computer. So Now do you think of him as a kind of a mentor or like, can you learn toward him or is he more just like, like a colleague or, he is kind of like a father figure to me actually. Yeah. Um, not even so much like in a photography sense, but like with how long I've known him and like how close we work together and he's pretty much, yeah. And he's, and some of the, the, the work that you do for the Globe, has that been like mostly driven through him? With the exception of like a couple things that they've like put in that I like sent in. Yeah. Um, and then like the pops asked me to come, so I did that. Speaker 2 00:37:16 Yeah. Yeah. I think that got picked up by a different one too. I don't remember if it was the heroin or one or the others. Yes. Um, but, uh, and you weren't shooting rides too, was that for No, that was, there was, there was stuff I ended up like freelancing a lot of that stuff out. Yeah. Um, and it was more a since I had been shooting like the concerts and like all this like really high energy stuff Yeah. And where it's like such like a pivotal point in time. Yeah. I have the ability to capture it. Yeah. You know, the, the, my shop's not supposed to be open anyway, so Yeah. I don't, I don't have anything to really do. So I went that Yeah. And like documented like all like the uproar that was going on. Yeah. Um, you know, I tried to capture it in a way that was, that showed like the intensity and emotion of like, everybody that was there. Speaker 2 00:38:07 Yeah. Uh, because we had, you know, like one side of the aisle was all hyped up for one reason, the other side was for another reason. And like, when those clashes happened, it gets a little crazy. Yeah. Do you, what did you have to do with all those, those pictures that something you over your visit some or was that something? I actually revisit like in 2021, I, I went through and, uh, I'm trying to remember, I know it's on YouTube somewhere and, um, I sent 'em to the newspapers. I don't know what they did with them. Yeah. But I went through to like all the places that like I shot were like that, like were ones that were published. Yeah. And I retook the picture at like, the same time of day, like one year later, two the day, uh, to show like, you know, like, oh, like there was 10,000 people here fighting. Speaker 2 00:38:54 Yeah. And now it's just empty, you know, it was, it was interesting and it was kind of cool and I like matched 'em up as close as I could. Yeah. I was walking around with like those pictures, like, let's see. Yeah, do this. Like, but not remembering like exactly like, oh, like what focal length that I, or anything like that. Um, and it made it different 'cause like the focus was different too, where with all the people around, like, I was focusing on people. Yeah. So like, you know, backgrounds are a little blurry, stuff like that. Yeah. And that also makes like a star contrast. 'cause you go from portraits of chaos to just like an empty, like city steam shop. It was pretty interesting. Yeah. No, it sounds like something that would be kind of, you know, also like a, a retrospective show to like, to see, like, to see like those images, you know, then, you know. Speaker 2 00:39:43 Yeah. And it was like a done and now, but it was, you know, it was only a year. Yeah. But the, the stark contrast of like, the time, that was like one year ago. Interesting. Yeah. That's cool. And you're, you're always thinking like, yeah. Yeah. And it was like a random, I think like the day before I was like, oh, this could be kind of cool. So I went, that's, you know, what else <laugh> get tired, man in the store that day. It was at night. Anyway. Yeah. Because I think most of those shots were Yeah. Taken nine o'clock and after Yeah. Yeah. Nightfall. Yeah. Stuff here. Crazy. Yeah. Without, there was like the, the main like protests that happened before, um, was, you know, like peaceful and everything until like, it was almost like, uh, someone flipped a switch in my, yeah. It's really interesting. Speaker 2 00:40:32 Um, but I think that was at like four in the afternoon when I first got there. Yeah. On both things. So yeah. That's, you know. Interesting. Now what is, uh, like some of the publications that picked up though, is that a, uh, um, is that something that you, you have a contact to send them to? Or is that like uh, yeah, like they have like the, uh, I have all the emails for like, the publishers at The Globe and a couple of the Harold. Uh, and I would just email 'em to 'em. Uh, whether or not they use them, I'm not quite sure. 'cause I'm really bad at checking my emails, so Yeah. If they email me back, they're like, oh, these went into this because they don't really like, they don't, not really, no. And like, the notoriety is kind of cool, but relatively modest effort. Speaker 2 00:41:18 Like, you know, like having like the publication like isn't the all end all for me. Its more just to be there and do it. Yeah. Like I send them to without like, looking for anything. Yeah. Uh, and depending on like how they're used, sometimes they'll give you money, sometimes they won't. Yeah. What, what's the and and what's the difference? Why would, why would they? Uh, if it is used for like a specific article Yeah. Or you're asked to do it, it is usually what they paid for it. You know, like, you know, if you just send 'em in stuff, they usually, you know, they'll ask you if it's okay to publish it or, you know, that seems like an interesting, you know, like, because there seems like there's magazines out there, there are these community things and they're trying to get people to write the article, submit the, so it's like, almost like a workaround they don't have to pay. Speaker 2 00:42:05 Yeah. Right. Yeah. It, and that's like part of like, what's changed, like Yep. I think The Globe only has one staff photography really, and everything else is freelance. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, whether it's freelance by people who are just like, this could be cool, I'm gonna send it into Yeah. Or if it's freelance for like a certain article that's being written, you know, like most of 'em like aren't employed by the globe, so they're not handed out w twos to these. Yeah. You know, and sometimes the amount of money that they end up isn't enough to even worry about. Yeah. That's interesting. Now, back in, like, when did Bill say they, how many staff photographers they on at that point? Oh, they probably, I think they had nine or 10. Yeah. Um, because they were sending enough to do everything from like, yeah. Oh, the police are going down here. Speaker 2 00:42:49 Go, go see what that's all about. <laugh>, uh, oh, there's a fire on this road. Like, go down there and see what you can get. Um, you know, and like Bill started doing all that sort of stuff and then he moved on to doing like the nightlife, like Yeah. You know, the, the Boston nightlife and all the fundraisers and like the who's who of like the political game in Boston. Yeah. He's such an, I mean the, the, the books and all of his stuff is so interesting. Like, just to, to think that like, you know, like in the books that, that what he did with Carrie, it's like, you know, just, you know, you see this person and then you see all these other people that they're connected to. What? Oh, it's take pictures of, you know, we sell like the Boston Irish book and all those books here. Speaker 2 00:43:32 Yeah. And just about, you know, like, it is less now that they've been out for a while, but like when they first come out, I was like, oh, I know this person, I know this person. Yeah. My friends have that book. Someone told me that, you know, they were in this book and I see you have it. Can I buy it? You know, like, uh, so like, it, it, it is a huge connection that is from like, you know, Duxbury to South Boston. Yeah. You know, because a lot of people who lived in South Boston don't live in Duxbury. So, um, but like the connections around here, like make it into those books are wild. Yeah. And it's, there's, there's people that like, and just the achievements of some of the people in the books. Yeah. It's like, oh, here's this guy. And Oh, what does he do? Speaker 2 00:44:11 He is a, he's a surgeon, but on the weekends he goes and checks for homeless people and make sure they're all right, like in the middle of the night, you know, and it gets into like depth with like, oh, when he goes to like, wake someone up to see how they're doing, he's driving a flashlight on his face so they don't feel like he's a, you know, there's a lot interesting people in those books. And Bill's done a very good job capturing 'em and caring about their story. Yeah. And like, that makes a difference. I mean, I just talked to him the other day. The, the next was that it's veterans appreciation. Is that what uh, yeah, it's, uh, veterans and supporters or veterans appreciation. One of, I don't know, working titles. We're not sure, but And you're working with him on that as well? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I've been, I've, uh, I've helped him with like, the last couple books he's done. So Boston, Irish and, um, Boston Game Changers. Yeah. And then on this one, you know, it's again, helping with editing and cataloging and Yeah. Uh, he works for Carol Be who does all the writing. Yep. Uh, did you like offer opinion if he's got like two shots that are similar, like I'll either offer opinion or shut down like what he wants to do. Editing. Yeah. <laugh>, he had a thing for a while. Speaker 2 00:45:25 You, he like, oh, Billy, you don't want cut that background out because it actually makes the picture like dynamic. Yeah. You have like an environmental portrait, so why are you gonna get rid of the environment? Yeah. Um, especially with some of these metros and they'll have frames of metals and all this stuff behind 'em. It's like, you know, like you want to, like, you want to highlight that, but you don't want it to be intrusive. So like, why would you black it out? 'cause that's like their life story. Yeah. Whether, whether they read, you know, the three paragraphs or not. It's pretty Well, when's your book coming up? I wish I was organized enough to make a book. Yeah. You think you, you think you will at some point? That probably, I mean, I think it would be cool to do, uh, one of all like the, the Boston South Shore like music scene that working. Speaker 2 00:46:08 Yeah. Like that could be really fun to make. Yeah. Um, whether or not I'm making any money there could be cool either way. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I'd, I'd like to see you do it just because I'd like to see the shots all at one, you know? Yeah. To be able to let you know, flip through and see them all in one spot, you know. Yeah. And I think like doing something like that would be interesting to see in print. Um, 'cause most of that stuff is really like social media. Yeah. Uh, like I get, I get like pretty excited when like a band is like, I, a couple finals coming in that are filled with all the shots that I've taken. Uh, I just got a few posters from the record companies and like a CD and a tape for some reason they're making tapes. Speaker 2 00:46:49 Yeah. Tapes are back. Tapes are back. Yeah. We move on a campaign with like, you know, trying to like show the records, you know, like show that our, you know, absolutely. Anything that, you know, I mean this, you know, any, anything that's worth framing it, you know, like just inspiring people and like that, you know, you look at those jackets, that's a art, you know? Yeah. Just like the, you know. Yeah. And then you have like designers who actually like, work pretty hard on that. Like, so like it's, it's again, another form of art, whether it's like composite built or anything. Yeah. Um, and art in all forms is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of, you know, art that you like, you know, we got another one over here where we, uh, so this is like an art and science all in one Yeah. Where you get to be nerdy. Speaker 2 00:47:35 Um, so my friend James, uh, he owns a company called F Stop Cameras and his other one is casual photo file where he writes about all these cameras and stuff like that. Uh, he disassembles these cameras and makes like exploded pictures of them. Yeah. Um, you know, painstakingly taking a picture of each piece and a layering in Photoshop and, uh, I don't know if it's our patience is a higher part on that one, but it's a lot of work. Um, I really like stuff like this because it sort of like embodies like all those pieces that go into something that's so simple. Yeah. You know, you take something apart like a camera, it's like not nearly as simple as you think. It's on the outside. Uh, a few of 'em are. Yeah. Uh, especially the older, the older the cameras get, the simpler they get. Speaker 2 00:48:23 Uh, yeah. But all these things that make it more arranged in a way that's like aesthetically pleasing and it gives you this like, modern art vibe. Yeah. What kind of camera is this? Uh, it's a Nikon F three. Is that something that you collect with? Uh, I have a couple of 'em. Yeah. Um, it is like, uh, in the, in the 35 millimeter world, it's a pretty coveted camera. Yeah. Um, it was probably one of icon's best cameras before they came out, like the F five, like full out of focus and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. You almost, you have the Museum of Cameras out front. Yeah. I keep, I can just collect them. Yeah. Uh, and most of the ones out front work and I shoot with a lot of 'em, so. Really? Yeah. Um, usually like the stuff I photograph on film is stuff that I don't want to use the term like I don't care about, but it's not like work. Speaker 2 00:49:19 Yeah. It's just more like fun stuff. Like I'll grab like one of those cameras, like keep it in the moment so, you know, you're not like taking a picture and like making sure it came out okay. Yeah. It's like, you know, take one of the old cameras and like, hang out with your family or whatever. You take pictures and you get what you get. Yeah. But you're not sitting there like, making sure it's cool on the phone or going to post this or send it to somebody. Hey, look at this, you know, you gotta wait to do that. Um, you know, I, I wait just like I make any of my customers wait, you know? Yeah. We do film twice a week, so, you know, I can, I, I'm here twice a week, so it makes it very easy for me to get film in on the right day. Speaker 2 00:49:55 Yeah. Um, you know, it's still like, if I'm out for the weekend, like I'm not gonna know if I got any pictures still the next week. And I kind of keep you in the moment, like with the people that are there. Yeah. Um, and then knowing how to take a picture on film helps because then you have less on crap. But do you have 'em laying around the house? Like do you have laying around there? I mean, they have a cool like sculpturey type of Yeah. Feel for them. Um, I do. I don't have nearly as many at home. Yeah. Um, 'cause I don't have big, like, retake cases full of them. Yeah. But like, I have 'em like on my shelf in my office and stuff like that. Um, you know, I have a few of 'em and like the ones at home are like the ones that stay there and I keep filling the fridge. Speaker 2 00:50:37 Same thing. You just grab one, grab one. Yeah. Like, if we're like going somewhere doing anything like that, I'll just bring it with me. Um, if I feel like carrying a camera. Yeah. Uh, for someone who makes a living on photography, I, I take surprisingly few pictures, like what my customers say. How about the phone? You take a lot of pictures with the phone or Yeah. It's always stupid stuff I need to remember later. Yeah. That's something best reminder ever. Yeah. Uh, but that's pretty much it. That or just messing around. Yeah. But not, but no artistic photo, you know. No iPhoneography. Uh, no. And I think it's just because I've used like full-size cameras for so long, like it doesn't feel right. Yeah. Um, and I'll bring pictures off my phone, but it's usually, it's, it's nothing that's like, oh yeah, yeah. It's nothing that's like, oh, this is gonna be like a huge thing. Speaker 2 00:51:28 Yeah. So, uh, you know, like some show or something like that because most of those I take with like intention Yeah. Of like creating a piece of artwork versus like stumbling across it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but for that reason I have to carry like a smaller camera now. Like it's nice thing with a small arrow. Fuji X B is usually my bag in case I stumble upon something, which happens every now and again. Yeah. I'm usually only here though, so I it doesn't have often. Yeah. It's tricky. Yeah. It's tricky. That's a tough thing being in the business of art. Right. Kinda, you know, it consumes you. Like my, my life is consumed with other people's artwork. Yeah. Which is, you know, it is, it is enriching, which is nice. 'cause I get to, I'm surrounded by cool stuff all day. Yeah. No total. But it takes away from, I don't wanna say my creative side, because I still get to be creative doing what I do, but the like, Spurling moment, like, Ooh, I'm not here. Speaker 2 00:52:30 I go to the beach and take photos today. You know? It's like usually I'm here working. Yeah. So like, you know, it's still creative, but different creative. Yeah. Do you get ideas from people's work that you see or? I do. Um, you know, I don't, uh, imitation is the best form of letter. Yeah. Uh, you know, the, uh, I do get a lot of like, inspo from some people's work, especially people who have traveled. Yeah. Um, you know, like the, there's some really nice pictures of Duxbury Bridge, but I've seen 'em all. Yeah. <laugh>, you know, they're, I don't feel like I need to run out and take a picture of Duxbury Bridge, you know, it's, um, there's a bunch of 'em and there's some people are very good with Dux Berry shooting every day. Yes. See all different types of light. Um, the stuff I find like really interesting now are like the creative portraits or the, like, modern, like street photography type stuff. Speaker 2 00:53:25 Yeah. Uh, or how people are trying to recreate stuff from like old, like, you know, quote unquote masters, like Diana Harvest and stuff. Yeah. Um, trying to like recreate like this like vibe or, you know, like that defining moment shot. Yeah. And that's kind of fun. Now is there, like, aside from Bill, is there other people that you like, kind of look up to in photography? Yeah. Uh, photography wise, I mean, like, art Wolf has always been one of my favorite photographers out there. Um, you know, he does a lot of wildlife stuff for like natural geographic and things like that, but I like his portrait work and a lot of it's more like abstract, intimate work that he is worked on. Yeah. Um, you know, there's, I, there's a bunch of photographers on there. Yeah. But, uh, there's a few people on Instagram, like, I wish I could remember their names, but like Yeah. Speaker 2 00:54:14 Their stuff is incredible. Yeah. And like, makes me wanna live in Filmland. Yeah. What do you think Instagram? Uh, I mean, are you putting a lot of stuff on Instagram or, I'm terrible at it. Um, I've been doing mostly stories now with all, like the show stuff. Yep. Um, I never really post too much day in the life stuff, which I'm trying to do more and more here. Yep. Uh, and so you're looking at it more like a tool for Yeah. Like a lot of engagement on it when I use it, which is really cool. Yes. Um, the hardest part for me is remembering to do it. Yeah. Um, but I think it's, I think it's a great tool for people to drink to expand summer, like get things out there. Yeah. Well, I, I think it's, I mean, from an August standpoint right. It's a fantastic tool for people to see a representative amount of their work or, or all the work. Speaker 2 00:55:06 Um, the hardest part, like I think, uh, I read something where photos were back on Instagram, which is nice, you know, they weren't the real thing and like, they weren't keeping timelines updated with anything unless it was a real Yeah. Now I gets photos of starting to make, uh, comeback in the algorithms. Yeah. That's what it was designed for. Yeah. Um, which is cool, but like the different mediums, like that's, that's probably on everything I do the hardest to keep up on. Yeah. Or like to learn about because it, it's different every week too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like Instagram sneaking on there, looking at people's stuff. Yeah. You know, that's you. Yeah. I mean, I spend way more time scrolling than posting, so, yeah. Is there a lot, you know, is there a lot of, uh, photographs that you are printing for customers from, you know, just from Instagram and from, uh, usually no. Speaker 2 00:55:57 Like, I mean, they'll come in and they'll be like, Hey, I have this picture, you know, like, well, what's it on? It's like, well, right now it's on Instagram. You gotta email me the actual photo. Yeah. Um, Instagram crushes resolution for printing pretty high. Uh, so, but most of the time I don't get a lot of people trying to print other people's work for this, so, um, which one we don't do because you're not supposed to. Yeah. Um, but you know, usually if it's the person who posted, they have the original somewhere, whether it's on their phone or if it's on their computer and they can email me, email it to me. Yeah. That or you must have taken the picture off to send it to them, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> <laugh>, I mean, that's, that's acceptable because going the fine. Cool. Well, uh, I don't know. Speaker 2 00:56:39 I'm trying to think if there's anything else that we wanted to cover. We got, did you, you feel like you talked enough about this piece? Do you have this hanging at home too? Uh, I have a different camera hanging at home. Actually. I have one of a, like M three that me and James actually did together. No kidding. Uh, we took apart. Yeah. Everybody got mad. Us taking part, like that's you, you're talking to a guy that doesn't know that much about, uh, equipment as like the holy grail of film cameras and the like, people are like people, we get angry when you mess with their stuff. Cool. Well, I appreciate you taking the time, showing us around this space, you know, sitting in, in this spot and I think, uh, you know, I'm sure we'll be back, um, always, always fun talking to you and, you know, true expert about photography, you know, and, uh, you know, also a, you know, artistic mind. Always fun to talk to. Yep. All right. Awesome. Thank you Dave. See you. Speaker 0 00:57:40 Thanks for watching. Make sure to subscribe and keep the notifications turned on so you don't miss any of our future episodes. And you can learn more about the frames.

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